tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post4793193497810958997..comments2023-08-27T06:53:36.768-06:00Comments on LANL: The Rest of the Story: Frank Younghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02134775226991383924noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-58771364855572019132008-03-02T11:49:00.000-07:002008-03-02T11:49:00.000-07:00John, I just head about the decision on the TV NEW...John, I just head about the decision on the TV NEWS this week. WE all went through hell those many weeks looking for those disks that did not exist. I remember how Todd was feeling very early on. Congratulation on this ruling and on your retirement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-88147070965948414462008-02-29T22:10:00.000-07:002008-02-29T22:10:00.000-07:00"Like, substantiation? Evidence? Details? Reality?..."Like, substantiation? Evidence? Details? Reality? Like something admissible in court? (Or, does "directly responsible" for death not mean legal accountability to you"<BR/><BR/>Right. Try WhitewashAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-90665415366211899322008-02-29T22:05:00.000-07:002008-02-29T22:05:00.000-07:00Nanos tops the UC Wall of Shame.His name will live...Nanos tops the UC Wall of Shame.<BR/>His name will live in infamy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-74040417096737658932008-02-29T09:44:00.000-07:002008-02-29T09:44:00.000-07:00Regarding the "Forgotten Two":Someone (7:58) poste...Regarding the "Forgotten Two":<BR/><BR/>Someone (7:58) posted earlier "Well, maybe because these were "security" people and therefore beneath contempt, let alone worthy of sympathy??"<BR/><BR/>They weren't exactly "security people", although at least one performed a security function. They were low-to-mid level TECs, I believe. But John was also a technician (albeit a TEC 7), and Todd was a non-degreed staff member, so I think there's little truth to the claim that those two (the not-John-or-Todd two) were forgotten or ignored because they were TECs or "security people" rather than "scientists".<BR/><BR/>I've always found it curious that they are forgotten. As an example, an earlier poster on this thread states "Nobody got disciplined except Horne and Kauppila.", and that simply isn't true. But that is what the story has become.<BR/><BR/>I don't recall Todd mentioning the "forgotten two" in his account of what happened; to my knowledge John has never mentioned them on this blog. Certainly their names rarely (if ever) came up on the revered original blog.<BR/><BR/>For the record, at least 10 people got several weeks, if not months, administrative leave; three people were terminated (Todd plus two more), and at least one person got unpaid leave. <BR/><BR/>So, again, Todd, John, Doug Roberts, the bloggers....it seems that no one ever talks (or in Todd's case, talked) about the other two. Certainly no one has championed their cause.<BR/><BR/>Again, why? Did they somehow deserve what happened to them,while John and Todd did not?<BR/><BR/>I don't have the answer, but I believe that the question is worth asking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-89512387411457155282008-02-29T07:15:00.000-07:002008-02-29T07:15:00.000-07:00The only value left here is the entertainment as t...The only value left here is the entertainment as the anti's try more and different ways to bash the lab, it's employees, and all things LANL. 12:22 am is no grad student, give me a break. Just another Mechels wannabe in training.<BR/><BR/>I agree with Noam Chomsky. When he was asked how to solve the various problems in society today, he said something to the effect of most of our problems would be solved if people spent most of their time worrying about what they see in the mirror each morning. <BR/><BR/>Get a life, people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-35358156953003927572008-02-29T00:22:00.000-07:002008-02-29T00:22:00.000-07:00This is all pretty mind blowing. I didn't know al...This is all pretty mind blowing. I didn't know all this had happened. <BR/><BR/>I've been considering working at the labs for a couple of years now since I graduated, and as I have been putting out feelers and reading New Mexico papers and generally paying attention to sources like this blog, I've realized what a total blunder it would be to ever work at such a place that puts people through the grinder. <BR/><BR/>I remember the Wen Ho Lee situation, read about accidents and things that happened where it seemed that the lab/company seem to have no regard whatsoever for the safety or even to honor these engineers and technicians who are harmed there. Just look at the anger on this blog!<BR/><BR/>If you managers and movers and shakers want to know what's wrong with the Lab, go look in the god damn mirror. Situations don't get this bad without people like you at the top fucking things up. A lot. And then promoting your own filthy types and co-scumbags. Shameful.<BR/><BR/>...And to think I wanted to come there because I thought it would be a different world. Yikes. Thanks for making me realize what a horde of scumbags the top of the pyramid is there in Los Alamos, and for making me realize what a bullet I might have dodged.<BR/><BR/>And no, it wasn't this story that made my mind, it's been a growing feeling for quite some time now. I'm just finally moved to comment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-32241044441044166182008-02-28T22:35:00.000-07:002008-02-28T22:35:00.000-07:00I want to thank all of you who have been supportiv...I want to thank all of you who have been supportive of me and Todd. I am unable to comment specifically until the decision is finalized in 30 days. When that happens I will be free to answer peoples questions. I haven't paid much attention to the blogs for some time but someone told me that this posting was here and I wanted to acknowledge all of you who were behind us. It is sad that Todd is not here to share in this victory but this was a vindication for him as well.<BR/><BR/>Warmest regards to you all and God Bless.<BR/><BR/>John HorneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-63233551516134284852008-02-28T21:48:00.000-07:002008-02-28T21:48:00.000-07:007:58 pm: "Isn't it funny how no one ever mentions ...7:58 pm: "Isn't it funny how no one ever mentions the other two people? Why is that, I wonder?"<BR/><BR/>Well, maybe because these were "security" people and therefore beneath contempt, let alone worthy of sympathy?? Regardless of how their careers were ruined also? Yes, you technical folks who formed up the wagons and excluded these people, you are guilty too!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-29661528584038387632008-02-28T19:58:00.000-07:002008-02-28T19:58:00.000-07:00Congratulations, John. Here's hoping that the Kau...Congratulations, John. Here's hoping that the Kauppila family can use this to their advantage.<BR/><BR/>So, bloggers....<BR/><BR/>There were two other people fired from DX-3 at the same time Todd was fired and John was sent home. The two people were fired over the same incident. A total of 3 people from DX-3 lost their jobs over the CREM non-incident.<BR/><BR/>Isn't it funny how no one ever mentions the other two people? Why is that, I wonder?<BR/><BR/>Were they somehow guilty while John and Todd were innocent?<BR/><BR/>What do you think?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-51083075697679892832008-02-28T14:14:00.000-07:002008-02-28T14:14:00.000-07:009:38 am: "If you were here in 2004, you know what ...9:38 am: "If you were here in 2004, you know what happened. If you weren't here, then just keep your ignorance to yourself."<BR/><BR/>I think the question had to do with actual legal culpability of LANL management, or not. If yes, one would have expected criminal charges, or at least an investigation by state or federal law enforcement. If such occurred, it wasn't obvious to those of us who work here.<BR/><BR/>If news reports are even remotely accurate, it is hard to see how managment caused Mr. Kauppila's serious illness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-52375769313040167652008-02-28T12:52:00.000-07:002008-02-28T12:52:00.000-07:00It's interesting to watch how some at LANL have al...It's interesting to watch how some at LANL have already forgotten the bitter lessons of the '04 shutdown and now try to cast it as a beneficial event. Perhaps it's part of the LANS/UC inspired "Suck Up - Move Up" push that seems so rampant at LANL. <BR/><BR/>During the RFP contest LockMart's Paul Robinson didn't "suck up" to NNSA. He came right out and said the shutdown was a bad idea. LANS and their leadership made no such comments. NNSA, wishing to avoid embarrassment for the whole rotten episode, picked LANS for the contract, of course. <BR/><BR/>Is it any wonder that things at LANL are still screwed up and getting worse with each passing day? The pro-shutdown crowd is still running the show. At least they've not been able to hide the truth of the events that really took place back in '04. The LANS PR team can spin it anyway they want, but the public now knows the truth that both LANL/UC upper management and NNSA tried to hide from both the public and their staff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-29921558419784339012008-02-28T10:50:00.000-07:002008-02-28T10:50:00.000-07:00"Finally. Progress.Congrats John!(and Chris Mechel..."Finally. Progress.<BR/><BR/>Congrats John!<BR/><BR/>(and Chris Mechels should go hide in a closet and eat his own shit, it would a more productive use of his time for him, and for us)<BR/><BR/>2/28/08 12:13 AM"<BR/><BR/>I also send my congrats to John Horne. <BR/><BR/>Forget Mechels, he is a bitter nutcase.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-48164650029460556382008-02-28T00:59:00.000-07:002008-02-28T00:59:00.000-07:00"We, of course, respect the decision of the arbitr..."We, of course, respect the decision of the arbitrator and wish John well," Roark said."<BR/><BR/>Oh, I almost forgot... give a great big F*ck You with sprinkles on top to LANS lacky Kevin Roark.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-29758702113325716282008-02-28T00:13:00.000-07:002008-02-28T00:13:00.000-07:00Finally. Progress.Congrats John!(and Chris Mechels...Finally. Progress.<BR/><BR/>Congrats John!<BR/><BR/>(and Chris Mechels should go hide in a closet and eat his own shit, it would a more productive use of his time for him, and for us)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-28670781523983932412008-02-27T23:03:00.000-07:002008-02-27T23:03:00.000-07:00Here is some good news for you poeple. Did you kno...Here is some good news for you poeple. Did you know that since LANS who controls the lab and who you work for is now a private company and bound by all laws? Do you know what this means? It means that anyone who gives you a hard time at the laboratory for any reason at all can face personal criminal charges and personal civil lawsuits without going through the laboratory. Basically you can go right down to your local district attorneys office and file a criminal complaint against anyone. Then the DA sends the police to the accused, gets arrested, investigates them and it goes to court. So what does this mean? The handy little clearance the person has goes into jeopardy and will get revoked. End of person bothering you and you go on because LANS will turn its cheek towards you and leave you alone because they know you mean business. Then you can just call up a lwayer and sue them personally pro bono! There you go!!<BR/><BR/>Problem Solved. LANL opened itself up with going private. DOE can no longer hide LANL. Game Over!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-31252001683713594242008-02-27T21:37:00.000-07:002008-02-27T21:37:00.000-07:009:00 pm: "8:22 PM - Seestrom is directly responsib...9:00 pm: "8:22 PM - Seestrom is directly responsible, so is Cobb and Nanos. Any other questions?"<BR/><BR/>Uh, yes - my original ones? Like, substantiation? Evidence? Details? Reality? Like something admissible in court? (Or, does "directly responsible" for death not mean legal accountability to you?). Or are you just afraid? No foul if true, just say so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-59547054339352484802008-02-27T21:36:00.000-07:002008-02-27T21:36:00.000-07:00You can read Todd's account of the events here.You can read Todd's account of the events <A HREF="http://lanl-the-rest-of-the-story.blogspot.com/2007/05/two-years-ago-today.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>.Frank Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02134775226991383924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-8043561412227435162008-02-27T21:22:00.000-07:002008-02-27T21:22:00.000-07:00Congratulations John! I'm glad you stuck it out an...Congratulations John! I'm glad you stuck it out and proved your innocence. I only wish that Todd was still alive to be vindicated as well. Perhaps this victory might enable Sarah to successfully pursue the lawsuit Todd planned. To Anonymous 8:05AM who questions whether this incident killed Todd... I can say that as a friend of Todd's who also worked closely with him and admired his tremendous talents, the injustice of the whole affair undoubtedly took a tremendous toll on his health. Although he was beginning to rally, the incident did him in. It's horrendous that this injustice was perpetrated against him (and John, and others within DX who were vilified and sent home like criminals). To explain the details would take a short novel and many of those involved are still scared to speak out for fear they might be subject to the same treatment. Anyway, congratulations John and good luck. - GAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-77727351428555816352008-02-27T21:06:00.000-07:002008-02-27T21:06:00.000-07:002/27 08 7:50 PMDon´t be smart with [2/27/08 11:39...2/27 08 7:50 PM<BR/><BR/>Don´t be smart with [2/27/08 11:39 AM] if he/she doesn´t remember that the LANS, LLC takeover was June 1, 2006.<BR/><BR/>(And you most likely believe that LANL would have been better of with Los Alamos Alliance, e.g. Lockheed Martin Corp. and UT, and Dr. C. Paul Robinson as director, than Dr. Michael R. Anastasio as director.)<BR/><BR/>(Tom D´Agostino has done 2 errors, as of, February 27, 2008:<BR/><BR/>(1) The M&O Contract that went to LANS, LLC, instead of Los Alamos Alliance, e.g. Lockheed Martin Corp. and UT.<BR/><BR/>(2) RRW-1 design competition, that went to LLNL, despite the 4-2 PEET recommendation that LANL´s design was better.<BR/><BR/>Consequence: Confusion, and no momentum achieved.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-63646879555970247222008-02-27T21:00:00.000-07:002008-02-27T21:00:00.000-07:008:22 PM - Seestrom is directly responsible, so is ...8:22 PM - Seestrom is directly responsible, so is Cobb and Nanos. Any other questions?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-41628751796456158182008-02-27T20:22:00.000-07:002008-02-27T20:22:00.000-07:008:05 am: "they killed Todd!"Yeah, I've seen this a...8:05 am: "they killed Todd!"<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I've seen this accusation slung around, but nobody is willing to actually be specific. Ok, so privacy is an issue, but please don't perpetuate slander you aren't willing to substantiate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-16723722103322164532008-02-27T20:19:00.000-07:002008-02-27T20:19:00.000-07:008:04 pm: "hopefully the wright people get fired"Wa...8:04 pm: "hopefully the wright people get fired"<BR/><BR/>Was Wright wrong or right? I can't remember, but I think he was wrong, Wright?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-86512285647958748042008-02-27T20:16:00.000-07:002008-02-27T20:16:00.000-07:00the whole NANOS stand-down thing was an appalling ...the whole NANOS stand-down thing was an appalling abuse of power, waste of money, and all part of taking LANL down...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-38449269782850224792008-02-27T20:04:00.000-07:002008-02-27T20:04:00.000-07:005:39 PM -Meanwhile, Horne's case was a gross abuse...5:39 PM -Meanwhile, Horne's case was a gross abuse of authority at LANL. Somebody needs to be disciplined over this."<BR/><BR/>Agreed, and hopefully the technicians who got punished in the DX acid inhalation incident, and the PD who was wrongly fired over the C acid inhalation incident all get vindicated soon as well. And hopefully the wright people get fired - in particular the managers who fucked up to save their own behinds (Wallace et al) and who have all been promoted or paid off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28220200.post-40210379727838672092008-02-27T19:50:00.000-07:002008-02-27T19:50:00.000-07:002/27/08 11:39 AM. Tell me again what role LANS pla...2/27/08 11:39 AM. Tell me again what role LANS played in the Horne/Kauppila witch hunt?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com