A blog reader points out another article about LANL in the NYT today:We're in the NY Times again this evening, about cleaning up TA-21:
New York Times Article (click here).
Carefully Cleaning Up the Garbage at Los Alamos
LOS ALAMOS, N.M. — No one knows for sure what is buried in the Manhattan Project-era dump here. At the very least, there is probably a truck down there that was contaminated in 1945 at the Trinity test site, where the world’s first nuclear explosion seared the sky and melted the desert sand 200 miles south of here during World War II.
New York Times Article (click here).
Carefully Cleaning Up the Garbage at Los Alamos
LOS ALAMOS, N.M. — No one knows for sure what is buried in the Manhattan Project-era dump here. At the very least, there is probably a truck down there that was contaminated in 1945 at the Trinity test site, where the world’s first nuclear explosion seared the sky and melted the desert sand 200 miles south of here during World War II.
Cleaning up the garbage? How about they start with LANS? I know you read this blog back at DOE in Washington, so let me repeat, slowly:
ReplyDeleteHOW ... ABOUT ... ABOUT ... THEY ... START ... WITH ... LANS?
Must. Not. Make. Stutter. Joke.
ReplyDeleteHey, it's hard to talk that slow.
ReplyDeleteWell, this thread shows some sign of hope in an otherwise bleak desert of humor.
ReplyDeleteDOE? LANS? Legacy irradiated trucks? What's not to find funny here?
ReplyDeleteTA-21 is a big deal It's the last major Lab bastion on the "town side" of the canyon. Having worked there for many years, I am glad to see it being cleaned up and given over to the County. Working there was pretty good - commuting against traffic every day and parking within a few feet of the doors. A short hop to the downtown restaurants for lunch. Sorta like S Site, but closer to civilization. Also, no big explosions. Building 210 where I worked was never contaminated. I remember watching the last trucks moving equipment out from the east side of TA-21 to the (then) new TA-55.
ReplyDeleteNYT, FYI:
ReplyDelete1. "Bomb hits outside suspected Pakistani nuclear-weapons site" [killing eight people, including two security personell, and wounding 15], October 23, 2009, at http://www.mcclatchydc.com/255/story/77650.html.
2. AP, Global Security Newswire, and USA Today also have this 24/7/365 terrorist (AQ/Taliban) threat towards the Pakistani nukes, and their nuclear material.
3. The report, "The Terrorist Threat to Pakistan´s Nuclear Weapons," by Shaun Gregory in CTC Sentinel, July 2009, Vol.2, Issue 7, at http://www.ctc.usma.edu/sentinel/CTCSentinel-Vol2Iss7.pdf, is an in-depth analyse of this subject matter.
"We're in the NY Times again this evening, about cleaning up TA-21"
ReplyDeleteThe actual clean-up effort isn't even being done by LANL. It's being done by sub-contractors who were recently hired for the project with the $212 million in stimulus money. Homeland Security Capital Corporation is one of them:
www.hscapcorp.com/team.html
As you can see, the company is owned by a former Republican Congressman and a former manager from Bechtel. Wow, what an amazing coincidence!
Homeland Security Capital Corp -
ReplyDeletestock closed at 17 cents on Friday.
finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=HOMS.OB
Jim Cramer, TV stock guru, says "BUY.. BUY.. BUY!!!!"
9:17 Are you wearing shoes that grip? Looks to me like you are engaged in subjects far above your paygrade. Let me and my Bechtel pals worry about Pakistan. Get back to cleaning your office before Brett finds out and calls LAO.
ReplyDelete-MIKEY
Remember the TA-21 criticality accident? I heard those people (the ones who died, of course) are buried out there in lead-lined caskets. Just some lore from people who used to work at the site.
ReplyDeleteThe LA Monitor has posted an interesting article that might make a good top level post:
ReplyDelete"Small business matchmaking"
POJOAQUE – It was informally called a “speed-dating” event for companies interested in working on environmental projects at Los Alamos National Laboratory.
Scores of presenters, ranging from labor unions to graphic design firms and more than a hundred people signed up to participate in a small business networking opportunity Thursday morning at the Cities of Gold Conference Center....
www.lcni5.com/cgi-bin/c2.cgi?
075+article+News+20091023164456075075004
---
Looks like lots of "locals" are interested in getting a piece of the stimulus money action at LANL. Will this stimulus funding be well spent, or will some of it end up being handed out to the lab's "friends and family" plan? Hard to say at this point.
10:15,
ReplyDeleteWas that the liquid criticality accident which occurred in 1958?
100 foot high earth berms will be built to protect the public in the event any solvents or explosives are detonated during the cleanup operation. The kicker is that the solvents have likely become more shock sensitive since they were buried. Personnel working in the area will be wearing explosive ordnance protective gear. Tell your friends and family to keep away from this area until the demolition is completed. Forgive me if LANS has already informed the public of this.
ReplyDeleteAs best I know, only one person died in that TA-21 criticality accident.
ReplyDelete12:08,
ReplyDeleteHow I wish you omitted the word "only". It implies that the worker who succumbed to the radiation exposures was insignifcant. Or that the event itself was insignificant because there was not more loss of life.
To Anonymous at 12:08.
ReplyDeleteYou dumb schmuck.
Just setting the record straight from an earlier moronic post that stated "Those people (the ones who died, of course) are buried out there in lead-lined caskets."
12:08,
ReplyDeleteHow I wish you omitted the word "only". It implies that the worker who succumbed to the radiation exposures was insignifcant. Or that the event itself was insignificant because there was not more loss of life.
10/25/09 12:31 PM
I believe that 12:08 was only correcting the original post by 10/24 10:15 am, which referred to "the ones that died." That you didn't recognize this and instead went off on your tirade is sad, but typical.
Perhaps they can turn the site into a national wildlife preserve much like they site at Rocky Flats. Or better yet, since the acid pit will take years on its own to clean up, how about some windmills so that the lab can establish a national center for windmill engineering and alternative energy activities. Certainly something better than what LANS is proposing (and spending millions of G&A $$$ on) in the name of MaRie, LANCE-R, and science.
ReplyDeleteI'm the original poster about the 1950-something crit accident at TA-21. I went back and read the history reports and I was mistaken. I thought 2 people were killed but as a previous poster pointed out, it was only one. However, it doesn't take away from the fact that local folklore says he was buried at TA-21 in a lead-lined casket because his body was so irradiated that he couldn't be buried under normal conditions.
ReplyDeleteMy comments were not meant to
poke fun of the tragedy or make it seem insignificant.
Boy, you guys are tough. Deepest apologies for misinterpreting
ReplyDelete12:08's intent to clarify a previous post.
Still, I stand by my initial opinion. "Only" diminishes the loss of this worker's life and diminishes the seriousness of the accident.
No tirade intended here.
My apologies to 12:08. Perhaps the posters here wanted to make sure I understood that you simply wanted to relay the fact that you heard there was one fatality immediately following the criticality. I thank you for that.
But I'd like to pose this question; how many workers were involved with this incident? How many workers, present at the criticality, had adverse health effects take years after this incident happened?
This is not a tirade. I honestly want to know the facts.
Good luck finding medical care in Los Alamos after the new BCBS contract takes effect on Jan 1st. Maybe Joey's Cut-rate Health Mart will be willing to see you?....
ReplyDelete---
"Open enrollment for health plans"
Los Alamos Monitor, Oct 25th
...There was also the issue of unsigned agreements between Blue Cross Blue Shield and the providers.
At least two large medical groups in Los Alamos have given notice that they have not agreed to a contract with the new provider — identified at the meeting as Medical Associates of Northern New Mexico and Los Alamos Medical Care Clinic.
A flyer from LAMCC included the question, “Why would LAMCC choose not to contract with BCBS in 2010?”
The answer: “With lower reimbursement we would be forced to cut back customer services. It would impact areas such as: phone services, nurse and physician acces. It is impossible for physicians to provide quality care when the operating costs are more than what BCBS currently reimburses.”
Wally McCorkle, in a call to the Monitor Thursday, said he thought the enrollment deadline should be extended until it was clear which doctors would be in the networks.
A group of 30 individual doctors, grouped in a Physician Hospital Organization were also said to have a negotiator still detailing a contract with the provider.
“In my opinion, none of the doctors want to get out,” said Wilson. “On the other hand, none want to go broke either.”
...Because of changes and some reductions in the medical payment schedules for next year, some physicians have reported that they will only take existing patients. Newcomers arriving from out of town may be out of luck.
www.lcni5.com/cgi-bin/
c2.cgi?075+article+News+
20091024171506075075004
---
Of course, it you fail to register a choice in the next 30 days, LANS will see to it that you have none of these worries, as you will be shit-out-of-luck for health care coverage for the next year.
Way to go, LANS! It's clear you really care about your loyal work force.
10/25/09 5:06 PM
ReplyDelete10/25/09 4:58 PM
try http://www.orau.org/ptp/Library/accidents/la-13638.pdf
Looks like LANS is about to do the same fine job to the local medical community that they've done with science at LANL, which is... to DESTROY IT!
ReplyDeleteHave you noticed that just about everything LANS/Bechtel touches seems to turn to crap? Yeah, your expenses for family coverage may go down by a minor $10 a month, but your odds of finding a decent doctor to take the new low-rate payments just went down by 90%. Not a big worry for Mikey, though, as I'm sure he gets special executive Cadillac coverage direct through UC.
Oh, and the cost for the employees and retirees who fail to register a choice during open session?... priceless! A year of fear and dread with no hope for medical coverage. Heckavajob, LANS! Might as well just change the name of the "for-profit" LLC from Los Alamos National Security (LANS) to Fuck-You-All (FYA) LLC.
Have I noticed that everything LANS and Bechtel touches turns to shit?
ReplyDeleteWhy yes. Yes I have.
Mikey and the boys have a knack for turning gold into shit.
"Have I noticed that everything LANS and Bechtel touches turns to shit?
ReplyDeleteWhy yes. Yes I have.
Mikey and the boys have a knack for turning gold into shit."
Doesn't matter. They bought this dance ticket fair and square. Bingaman approves of how LANS is conducting itself. 'Nuff said?
Current UHCP members who fail to make a choice by the end of open enrollment will be placed in the "most similar" BCBS plan, not dropped. Which is more than they deserve if they can't get it together to make a choice.
ReplyDeleteRe: http://www.orau.org/ptp/Library/accidents/la-13638.pdf
ReplyDeleteI went to school on a Monday following the 1958 criticality accident. Forth grade, Pajarito School on Arizona Avenue, Mrs Josephson was the teacher. She told us that little xxx's father (can't remember his name) had died in a nuclear accident a few days before. I still remember how she described the accident: "The last thing he saw was a blue flash."
A really nice story, Doug. However, the teacher's statement was inaccurate, since the victim, Cecil Kelley, remained conscious for some time after the accident, and may have regained consciousness in the hospital before he died 36 hours later, although this is not clear from reports. His case was studied exhaustively during the LANL "Human Radiation" program in the early 90's. See http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/pubs/00326644.pdf
ReplyDeleteFrom Wikipedia entry found using the search string 'criticality accident' ....
ReplyDeleteOn 4 June 1945, an experiment at Los Alamos to determine the critical mass of enriched uranium became critical when water leaked into the polyethylene box holding the metal. Three people received non-fatal doses of radiation.[3]
On 21 August 1945, Los Alamos scientist Harry K. Daghlian, Jr. suffered fatal radiation poisoning after dropping a tungsten carbide brick onto a sphere of plutonium. The brick acted as a neutron reflector, bringing the mass to criticality. This was the first known criticality accident causing a fatality.[4]
On 21 May 1946, another Los Alamos scientist, Louis Slotin, accidentally irradiated himself during a similar incident, when a critical mass experiment with the very same sphere of plutonium (see demon core) took a wrong turn. Immediately realizing what had happened he quickly disassembled the device, likely saving the lives of seven fellow scientists nearby. Slotin succumbed to radiation poisoning nine days later.[5]
On 30 December 1958, a Los Alamos chemical operator named Cecil Kelley working on plutonium purification switched on a stirrer on a large mixing tank, which created a vortex in the tank. The plutonium, dissolved in an organic solvent, flowed into the vortex. There was not supposed to be much plutonium in the tank, but there were actually 3.27 kg of it, which reached criticality for about 200 microseconds. Kelley received 3,600 rads according to later estimates. The other operators reported seeing a flash of light and found Kelley outside, saying "I'm burning up! I'm burning up!" He died 35 hours later.
8:21 PM: "Current UHCP members who fail to make a choice by the end of open enrollment will be placed in the "most similar" BCBS plan, not dropped. Which is more than they deserve if they can't get it together to make a choice."
ReplyDelete8:21 PM, what are you talking about? LANS has made it very clear in several memos and other communications to the employees that failure to select an option during open season will cause all coverage to be canceled for next year. There is no default except for the minor case of those few employees who may be currently covered by BCBS of California and are not covered by Medicare.
If you seem to think otherwise after reading the Monitor article, it is because of the poor way in which the article was written. I doubt you work at LANL are you would not have made that mistake in understanding.
NO SELECTION = NO COVERAGE.
It's as simple as that. It also brings up interesting sceanrios. Suppose you have a serious car accident on Oct 30th and go into a coma so that you can't make a selection during the Nov 1-31 period? It looks like your coverage would have to be canceled on Jan 1st. Not having a valid default options could lead to all types of problems.
10/25/09 8:21 PM ... wrote "Which is more than they deserve if they can't get it together to make a choice."
ReplyDeleteOK, smartass enlightened 8:21 PM, what is the right choice?
Thanks, 9:47. I imagine the teacher either didn't know the details, or chose not to share them with her 4th grade class.
ReplyDelete10/25/09 9:50 PM said:
ReplyDelete"On 30 December 1958, a Los Alamos chemical operator named Cecil Kelley working on plutonium purification switched on a stirrer on a large mixing tank, which created a vortex in the tank. The plutonium, dissolved in an organic solvent, flowed into the vortex. There was not supposed to be much plutonium in the tank, but there were actually 3.27 kg of it, which reached criticality for about 200 microseconds. Kelley received 3,600 rads according to later estimates. The other operators reported seeing a flash of light and found Kelley outside, saying "I'm burning up! I'm burning up!" He died 35 hours later."
We were told that the propeller on the bottom of that stirring rod had been installed improperly, essentially stirring the liquid backwards into a shape conducive to a critical mass.
Re: Health Plans
ReplyDeleteOkay, folks - first of all, don't believe everything you read when negotiations between a providers office and a carrier are involved. Get some facts from an independent source, if you can. As a former LANL employee who was involved in the selection and implementation of BCBS of NM, and planning Open Enrollment, here are some facts to consider.
1) The statement released by the medical practice in question is less than accurate, and I personally question the ethics of releasing such document, since they clearly know it wasn't exactly honest. BCBS already has an existing contract with them, and is not "lowering" the reimbursements once they sign with LANL (the truth is, the practice claims UHC reimbursed higher than BCBS, but that's not really what they state in the document, is it? ). This is a cute twisting of the facts, intended solely to rile up ignorant folks (like a couple of you posters) who don't bother to check their facts, and jump straight to their pre-determined conclusions. Anyone who's been in this business for more than two weeks knows that this is the oldest and most common trick in the negotiating book. And this one wasn't even executed well, as far as I'm concerned, since the facts are so easily refuted.
2) Most major employers in Los Alamos County are now with Blue Cross of New Mexico. If the practice goes through with a termination of the contract with Blue Cross, I will be very interested to see where they are going to drum up business.
3) Compare the local reimbursement rates to local medical professionals to the rest of New Mexico. In fact, compare it to Manhattan. Get the facts, then compare, THEN make your decisions. If you see those numbers, and you still feel they are being taken advantage of by Blue Cross - THEN post your opinion. And by the way - raising the medical provider rates means YOUR rates will increase too, so think about that one before you hop on the bandwagon.
4) Regarding what happens to your medical coverage if you do nothing... both answers posted were correct, depending on your status as active or retired. Active employees MUST elect, or face cancellation. Talk to the IRS about revising Section 125 Rules if you don't like that, it's what we were stuck with. Retired employees, not subject to pesky pre-tax considerations, will be placed in the most similar plan to their current plan, if they do nothing.
All of this was addressed in the info sessions, which I think are still running on LabNet. I'm sure all of you commenting did all your research on this before posting, but just in case...
Get your facts before you rant, people. Maybe your comments can then actually serve a purpose aside from feeding your ego or enabling your anonymous name calling crap. This blog serves a good purpose when the commentary is informed.
Active employees must make an election due IRS ules around pre-tax premiums. Retirees can and will be defaulted since there are no pre-tax premiums and therefore no tax laws to contend with.
ReplyDelete"It's as simple as that. It also brings up interesting sceanrios. Suppose you have a serious car accident on Oct 30th and go into a coma so that you can't make a selection during the Nov 1-31 period? It looks like your coverage would have to be canceled on Jan 1st. Not having a valid default options could lead to all types of problems.
ReplyDelete10/25/09 10:09 PM"
You should watch the presentation on LabNet since you clearly missed all 13 employee information sessions and the one simulcast on LabNet. Yet, still... you feel qualified to comment. Interesting.
Although the example I used was "if you are trapped in a mountain cave surrounded by Yeti's" a scenario of legitimate incapacitation was anticipated and would be addressed case-by-case. In your rush to assume that no one thought of this, you forgot to check first... Oops.
Section 125 says an employer cannot default an employee into a pre-tax benefit without employee's express, specific, consent. Recent revisions in 2004 did not loosen the requirements enough for our system set up to accommodate. That doesn't mean we wouldn't take the obvious step of helping someone who'd been in a car accident (or surrounded by Yeti's).
Greg,
ReplyDeleteCouldn't the Lab have solved the Section 125 problem by defaulting employees *out* of the TIP program and then defaulting them *in* to a medical plan paid on an after-tax basis?
(Granted, this would have had its own unintended consequences).
The benefits session is replaying 3times/day on Labnet 10 this week.
ReplyDeleteDid I read correctly in the Monitor that MANNM, one of the largest practices in LA, may not be signing up with the lab's new insurance carrier?
ReplyDeleteI guess I should restate that: I read it correctly, but is it indeed true? Since the Monitor has an ongoing problem with accuracy...
Surely LANS wouldn't allow so many patients to be left without doctors, since no one else accepts new patients.
10/26/09 10:40 AM- Good question! While that was a possibility, there are issues with that too since there are a few people with heftier rate increases than others, defaulting from pre-tax National PPO (UHC) to post-tax National PPO (BCBS) would see a big increase not just in monthly cost, but in the taxation of that higher cost, for example. Also, most people see a lot of benefit in the pre-tax premiums, so we preferred to come up with a solution that preserved that tax status and just put the onus on Benefits to follow up on every single employee who did not elect, instead. All-in-all the solution that was put in place is pretty comprehensive and involves so much hand-holding of anyone who forgets to enroll that there should realistically be no unintentional cancellation of coverage.
ReplyDelete10/26/09 10:58 AM... they are currently a provider, but are negotiating continuing terms to improve their reimbursements from Blue Cross. LANL can't allow or dis-allow MANM to exercise their free market rights to try to find the best deal they can (although as a private individual, I would love for them to come clean about it instead of pretending they are being victimized by Blue Cross). Legally, this is between the carrier and the provider, and intervention in that process could deem LANL as an insurance company instead of a plan administrator under ERISA, and that would have dire consequences for the health plan.
ReplyDeleteSo, at best, the information in the Monitor was "kind of accurate." And, based on some other current articles, sounds like some local providers have other issues to worry about before trying to hike their rates up.
Ah, yes, Glen Close again, spreading his usual dose of BS. As before, what he's telling you are the "facts", and what you have to say is "ignorant". He thinks that he can actually turn the health coverage switcheroo from a major disruption into a minor inconvenience by simply calling it a minor inconvenience. I guess in his mind if you call it something, it actually becomes that. Didn't we recently have a president who tried to do the same?
ReplyDeleteEven Alan Bishop in his emails to the staff warns of "major changes" the lab's health coverage, and he's known for understating the disruptive power of the disruptions the lab keeps hurling at us. (I seem to remember him referring to Nanos' raving speeches and the resulting shutdown as "perhaps less than optimal", or something like that.)
Since Greg likes to talk about "facts", let's play along. Here are some facts. The lab used Blue Cross as recently as 2003. There were no indications that their plan wasn't performing, or that the workers were unhappy with it. Yet, in 2004 the lab dropped BCBS and switched to UHC. I personally know several people for whom that switch caused a painful disruption in their ongoing treatments: UHC had no network in the area, everything had to be built from scratch.
After the rocky start, things with UHC finally settled down, and the service they provided was also good. You'd think that stable and good is what defines a good health plan. So apparently does the lab. And we just can't have something good around here. So, the lab yanks the contract again, back to BCBS this time. Again, expect major disruptions. Does your child have a chronic condition that needs regular care? Good luck worrying whether his specialist will take BCBS on January 3.
Ironically, this schizophrenic back-and-forth switching of healthcare is done under the guise of "best business practices". This just adds insult to injury. As pointed out before on this blog, the true reason is just so that some people at the benefits office can show they are working very hard. It's just activity for activity's sake. Hey, the KSL guys have torn up and repaved sections of the parking lot outside my window three times in the past year, also to show they are working very hard. Oh, and after all of this hard work you should see the quality of the pavement on this parking lot!
Jokes aside, an important point to be made here is that health insurance is not in the same category as the parking lot. Sad as it is to see taxpayer's money being buried into the ground, health insurance affects peoples' lives. Playing switcheroo with the health coverage more than just wastes money, it plays with their children's health, which is simply inhumane. If you have to continue doing something to justify your salary, please do it somewhere else.
Greg, thanks for the clarification on the MANNM issue. Seems like they would be cutting their own throats if they don't accept BCBS, once the lab switches to it. And you're right, MANNM does have other PR issues to deal with right now, so it seems unlikely that they would no longer accept lab patients. I just often wonder whether the Monitor ever prints things that are close to correct.
ReplyDelete10/26/09 11:16 AM Ah... my "B.S." Okay. So, while I'm basing my B.S. on actual experience and data and feedback from employees, you are basing your B.S. on a general knowledge of when we utilized what carrier, and your perception of when that coverage was "good" or "not good." I get it. That's kind of like me claiming to be an expert in the field of quantum physics because I've seen every episode of Star Trek.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I don't believe I ever characterized the complete change of medical carriers as a "minor inconvenience." Of course this is a huge deal. All I said was that steps were put in place to keep people from dropping off inadvertently from coverage. If you want to debate my B.S. at least debate the B.S. I actually say instead of putting B.S. in my mouth. Oooh. Bad turn of phrase, huh?
Believe me or don't believe me, that's fine- I don't really care. Read both sides of the debate and come to your own conclusion. I am SO glad to be out of that sick and deteriorating place you can't believe it. I have no motive to present anything other than my honest opinion, and even so - I respect your right to have a different one. I'd just like the discussion and the agreement or disagreement thereof to be based on facts (and relevant facts, if that's not asking too much).
"...that sick and deteriorating place..."
ReplyDeleteWhat!? This is the first I've heard of that! When did LANL deteriorate and become sick??
;-}
10/25/09 8:21 PM ... wrote "Which is more than they deserve if they can't get it together to make a choice."
ReplyDeleteOK, smartass enlightened 8:21 PM, what is the right choice?
10/25/09 11:10 PM
You want me to tell you what is the right choice for you?? Hey, grow a pair. You're never going to have more information than you do now, so read it and choose. No one knows your requirements and circumstances better than you. If you don't like it, you can change in a year. It's useful to recall that no health insurance plan tells you what care you can't get. It just tells you what care you can't get PAID FOR BY SOMEONE ELSE.
If you think the BCBS change is a big deal, look at what LLNL has to say:"Hey, how about those new (LLNL) medical plan premiums? I'm a UC retiree forced to have my medical benefits provided by LLNS, and my premium is going up almost 50% next year (and benefits are being reduced)." "Only “50%” … you’re doing better than me. Jumped 70% a year ago when they (LLNL)dropped PacCare, and had to pick up BC. Next year …. Will jump from $302 to $478 (a mere 58%). My prediction : they will continue to increase employee’s percentage cost till it’s 100% (more you pay, more money left for them)."
ReplyDeleteAnyone who used MANNM in the 90s knows that they have pulled this stunt before when the Lab switched health plans.
ReplyDelete10/26/09 10:58 AM
ReplyDelete"Did I read correctly in the Monitor that MANNM, one of the largest practices in LA, may not be signing up with the lab's new insurance carrier? ..."
Um, I'm currently with BCBS and have had no problems with MANNM. Some things are better, some are worse than when I had UHC with the lab. Have had fewer health problems since leaving the lab, so....
Back to Cecil Kelley.
ReplyDeleteThe LA Science writeup (cited above on the www.fas.org website) explains that Kelley was the first subject in the Human Tissue Analysis program. It's pretty clear that many, many tissue samples were taken from his body, so the "lead lined casket at TA-21" story strikes me as apocryphal. Note that Kelley's family members did not consent (and were not asked) to giving his organs up for this study.
In the book "Atomic America" Todd Tucker writes: "While some elements inside Kelley's body, such as sodium, had become activated in the incident, Kelley's corpse as a whole was not all that radioactive." By contrast, the victims of the Idaho SL-1 reactor explosion were indeed too hot to handle, so to speak.
Another interesting reference, this one contemporary with the accident:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,937100,00.html
"Nine hours after the accident, Kelley became coherent enough to explain that he mistook the blue flash for a short circuit in the stirrer switch."
As for the comment about "stirring the liquid backwards into a shape conducive to a critical mass." Um, no offense but please think about this for a minute. Or do the experiment: put your spoon into your soup and stir it clockwise. Now, without changing the orientation of your spoon, stir it counterclockwise. Pretty much the same result, right?
"I am SO glad to be out of that sick and deteriorating place you can't believe it." (Greg Close)
ReplyDeleteNow, that is a statement based on facts! I think almost everyone at LANL can agree with that statement (accept Mikey and his friends).
As far as attending the benefits presentation... sorry, no time for it. Been too busy taking all the mandatory online training courses for things like sexual harassment, ladder usage and wearing shoes that GRIP! LANS upper management is a bad joke. I hope NNSA is at least enjoying all the sick laughs that it generates.
Los Alamos may be a town full of Phd's and supposedly bright people but the local paper shows no signs of it.
ReplyDeleteI've seen better reporting done by high school papers that the stuff that gets dumped into this paper. It's hard to believe that people actually pay $75 per year to get it delivered to their homes!
Look at the excellent reporting done by guys like Frank Munger on ORNL and Y-12 over at the the Knoxville News and compare it to the trash you regularly see in the Monitor. It's sad.
It would be a "good thing" if the Monitor went bankrupt. Maybe, then, the local community could finally begin to see a new paper start up that contains accurate reporting and high quality news.
"Note that Kelley's family members did not consent (and were not asked) to giving his organs up for this study."
ReplyDeleteJust a side note:
The incident occurred in 1958. We're talking serious "Duck and Cover" mentality as being the prevalent mindset then in the USA. We actually practiced "duck and cover" at Pajarito School in the 50's. Think about it.
Permissions simply waere not required during that period for the government to take tissue samples from a lab worker who had been killed in a criticality accident at Los Alamos, Nevada, Hanford, or anywhere else in the DOE program.
Also, about the suggestion that the mixing blade was installed backwards: that does not jive with the fact that the vessel had been successfully used for mixing aqueous Pu solutions for seven years previously without incident, unless the criticality event involved a solution mix that had never before been tried.
"Los Alamos may be a town full of Phd's and supposedly bright people but the local paper shows no signs of it.
ReplyDeleteI've seen better reporting done by high school papers that the stuff that gets dumped into this paper."
Ooh. It is beginning to sound as if some reptilian Bechtilian objects to actual, factual reporting (for a change) by the Monitor. Thank God Ralph is gone.
Perhaps somebody senses the risk of his PBI-base bounus beginning to slip away as the actual facts regarding the lack of quality management from LANS begins to finally leak out into the mainstream media.
"Perhaps somebody senses the risk of his PBI-base bounus (sic) beginning to slip away as the actual facts regarding the lack of quality management from LANS begins to finally leak out into the mainstream media."
ReplyDelete10/26/09 8:48 PM
So, I take it you are foolish enough to part with $75 to get this useless rag delivered to your front door? What is it they say about "a fool and his money"?
And, as far as the Monitor breaking an important story about what is really going on inside LANL with the piss-poor LANS management, dream on, buddy. It will never happen.
"As for the comment about "stirring the liquid backwards into a shape conducive to a critical mass." Um, no offense but please think about this for a minute. Or do the experiment: put your spoon into your soup and stir it clockwise. Now, without changing the orientation of your spoon, stir it counterclockwise. Pretty much the same result, right?
ReplyDelete10/26/09 8:18 PM
"
Everyone knows it depends on if you are in the Northern or Southern Hemisphere. This is why all of our toilets rotate in the same direction, while they rotate in the opposite direction in places Valenzuela. 8:38PM is right about this place.
"So, I take it you are foolish enough to part with $75 to get this useless rag delivered to your front door?"
ReplyDeleteNo, Barbie. I read it online.
Hey, 8:57. You just had your ass handed to you. And, in case you're wondering: Yes, you *do* look that stupid to the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteOk, in the spirit of full disclosure, I did, in all honesty, just now feel a pang of sympathy for you.
Oops, it's gone. Never mind.
BTW, just out of morbid curiosity: exactly what does teensy little Ewok dick taste like?
9:11,
ReplyDeleteNot claiming any first-hand knowledge here, but I suspect it tastes a bit like Hormel Vienna Sausage.
Only worse.
9:11 pm: "Hey, 8:57. You just had your ass handed to you. And, in case you're wondering: Yes, you *do* look that stupid to the rest of us."
ReplyDeleteThe "rest of us" being who, exactly? A lonely, pimpled-faced kid sitting in his parent's basement beating off to internet porn while simultaneously posting on the LANL blog? Troll alert!!!
10/26/09 8:58 PM: "Everyone knows it depends on if you are in the Northern or Southern Hemisphere. This is why all of our toilets rotate in the same direction, while they rotate in the opposite direction in places Valenzuela."
ReplyDeleteLike where?? You win the prize - I don't believe I've ever seen a stupider post here. You are pristine, pure, stupid. Doug - COTW?
8:23 pm: "As far as attending the benefits presentation... sorry, no time for it. Been too busy taking all the mandatory online training courses for things like sexual harassment, ladder usage and wearing shoes that GRIP!"
ReplyDeleteBoy, are your priorities screwed up! Guess your family will thank your for that. Just typical of the jerks on the hill.
Hey, you guys, I'm feeling some third party sexual harassment over here.
ReplyDelete"Boy, are your priorities screwed up! Guess your family will thank your for that. Just typical of the jerks on the hill.
ReplyDelete10/26/09 10:43 PM"
Typical of the jerks on the hill?
What about all those people work work at LANL that live in Santa Fe?
Doug at 8:41, the reports all indicate that the solvent extraction was a recovery process for "lean" residues. For reasons unexplained, the Pu concentration was much higher in the tank that day.
ReplyDelete"HOW... ABOUT... ABOUT..." - 5:20pm
ReplyDelete"What about all those people work work at LANL" - 9:23am
Looks like our "stutter challenged" poster is back again again!