So, who are we to believe? According to a number of news sources, LANL staffers accidentally blew up part of a building with a "gun which acts like a Civil War Cannon" last week. Here's one report:
Here's another, from Frank Munger's Atomic City Underground blog:
But then we learn that LANL/NNSA has already "Roarked" the story. Wired reports that they've received an email from National Nuclear Security Administration spokesman Damien LaVera which implies that what we've first heard might not be the exact story:
Here are the facts: On December 16, Los Alamos conducted a standard proof test on a new design for a catch tank in the target chamber for one of our large bore powder guns (LBPG). These types of experiments are routine and responsible. The LBPG is used to conduct measurements of material properties at pressures needed for understanding nuclear weapons performance. During this particular test, unexpected explosive damage occurred and, because that damage could result in $1 million in damages, an investigation was automatically triggered. That investigation will seek to identify the cause of the incident and any changes in procedures that might be required. NNSA, Los Alamos, and all of our facilities take their commitment to safety very seriously. It is important to note that no personnel were injured from this event, no hazardous or radioactive materials were involved, and that lab's incident response mechanisms appear to have performed as intended.
Which version is the Real Story? We'll ponder this over the holidays.
--Doug
To: Bret K.
ReplyDeleteFrom: Mike A.
Date: December 24, 2009
Subject: Another Accident
Dear Bret,
This is no big deal. Go ahead and fire a couple of weapon physicists in X-Division at $500K apiece to make up for this $1M fiasco. Better yet, lets get rid of three engineers in W-Division. This should leave us without any weapon engineers, besides, we are physics lab. I sure am glad I gave you X-Division, now we have options. Go ahead and reorganize the the hell out of this Division, just like W-Division. We got these bastards by the you know what.
I just deposited your Christmas bonus in the Swiss Bank Account.
Keep up the great work!
Love, Mike
I hear that W. Rees, PADGS is in trouble for N div folks getting dosed. Anybody have additional info.? My bet is that Rees will blame/scapegoat Burns and then have Bynum oversee radiological related safety since that is the world he came from.
ReplyDeleteNot surprisingly, neither account is accurate. Sometimes metal fractures. It is a rule. The DOE might not like that rule, and the rule existed in the Civil War too. For the people involved, metal fractures. It is a rule. Of course THEY already know that.
ReplyDelete"During this particular test, unexpected explosive damage occurred and, because that damage could result in $1 million in damages, an investigation was automatically triggered." (NNSA)
ReplyDeletePOGO says $3 million and LANS says $1 million. Regardless, that's a LOT of damage. More than just some doors were blown off their hinges.
Oh, wait a minute, this is LANL. Just replacing a door to a regular office probably runs over $50K once maintenance finishes the job and all the paperwork is signed off.
Nevermind.
Good to hear that LANS has already got to work and fully "Roarked" the story. Why, that's LANS-tastic!
ReplyDelete"Just replacing a door to a regular office probably runs over $50K once maintenance finishes the job and all the paperwork is signed off."
ReplyDeleteThat is assuming the door ever gets finished at all. Usually the crafts will show up 6 months after the ticket is requested, without the supplies. Then they stand around for a while picking their asses. Three months later, they come back with the wrong size door. The door is modified, which with the extra paperwork costs 50K alone. Maybe in 2 years the door is finished.
We need door training.
ReplyDeleteNot surprisingly, neither account is accurate. Sometimes metal fractures. It is a rule. The DOE might not like that rule, and the rule existed in the Civil War too. For the people involved, metal fractures. It is a rule. Of course THEY already know that.
ReplyDelete12/24/09 2:49 PM
The metal fracturing was not the cause but the effect. The cause was x-lbs of explosive that apparently detonated. It is possible that the explosives were never expected or intended to detonate. Can anyone tell us how many lbs of explosive were involved in the incident?
Also, as I recall, a couple of months of ago a LANS Manager and subordinate (that work for his highness Bret Knapp) deliberately disabled and bypassed safety barriers and entered an explosive area that was preparing to perform an explosives test. Was this same test and bunker that this previous incident occurred at?
"POGO says $3 million and LANS says $1 million."
ReplyDeleteObviously POGO reported the fully-burdened cost of the repairs.
To: Mike A.
ReplyDeleteFrom: Brent K.
Subject: Re: Onothur Accident
Date: December 26, 2009
Yeah I'll get rid of as many physcists or engeenears that you need me too. I'm geeting stardud on the X-Divisin reorganisation. Im gonna split, then murge, then split, then murge too keep these guys cunfused and I scared the shit out of em. Ha ha! I just ubout have W-Divisin and s-site wiped out. I also ranked everbody in X-Divisin from the janiders to secataries when yur ready to started whipping thum out. Dont furget you promusted to promode me agan this year and giveme sommour Divisins to wipe out.
I luv you man, Brent
PS Wen we gona go back to Livermoor? I miss my mommie.
"Sometimes metal fractures. It is a rule."
ReplyDeleteHmmm. If that was true, we'd never drive cars or fly on an airplanes, heck, we wouldn't even risk using our toasters. But we do, so you must be wrong (once again).
Don't you ever get tired of being so stupid?
7:55 not too many toasters, cars or airplanes survive explosive impulses. Of course you know that. Don't you ever get tired of being a phony?
ReplyDeleteGee, Brett, this time you've got POGO on your ass. Riley doesn't like bad press. It won't be long 'till your star falls my friend. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. We'll all miss you.
ReplyDeleteI detonated a kg of HMX in my toaster and it survived just fine.
ReplyDeleteI'd just a soon put blind faith in a used car salesman or Wall Street analyst, as the Lab. When it comes to getting the truth, they're all about as equally reliable. I'd probably have to rank a used car salesman a notch about a Lab public affairs person though.
ReplyDeleteI thought most of the bigger NNSA explosive experiments were all being moved out to NTS (Nevada)?
ReplyDeleteMaybe this was just the last hurrah for these guys and they decided to take down the whole bunker with the final test.
Why not? They won't be needing it much longer. With Sen. Harry Reid replacing St. Pete, NTS is now set for some rapid growth while LANL slowly withers away.
Hey 8:43. What do you think happens with every ignition pulse in an internal combustion engine? Wow, you really are stupid. And a phony.
ReplyDeleteThink of this embarrassing bunker incident as D&D (demolition and disposal) work, which is clearly the main thrust at LANL since LANS/Bechtel came aboard. Yeah, the bunker damage may have been around $3 million, but who is going to bother re-building this old building, anyway?
ReplyDeleteLANL is heavily into D&D and LANS is clearly here as the "shut-down" crew. Based on this, NNSA will likely give LANS a high score this year for "expertly getting rid of yet another old building in record breaking time!"
Heckavajob, boys! What do you have planned for bringing down the old Admin building?
So LANL is now deeply into the weapons art of building "civil war" era cannons?
ReplyDeleteMy, how the devolution at this lab has progressed! It's breath-taking to behold.
LANS will never know exactly how many lbs detonated since it was not documented. The explosive "article" was inadvertently installed in the opposite orientation that it was supposed to be installed. Consequently the blast wave and debris were directed into the building instead of the catcher. Now here's the real FUBAR, the explosive somehow "inadvertently" detonated. LANS was just "lucky" that workers or dignitaries were not in the vicinity of the explosion, otherwise, it would have been really ugly. That's why workers were "surprised" why when the damn thing went off. Let's see how our Livermore boys cover this one up, they got 1 week to destroy all the evidence and pay-off all the people involved. I can Bret on CNN with that stupid (this one isn’t fake) and dumb (he’s faking this one) look on his oversized ugly mug saying “at Livermore, at Livermore, at Livermore,......” over and over again.
ReplyDeleteANS will never know exactly how many lbs detonated since it was not documented. The explosive "article" was inadvertently installed in the opposite orientation that it was supposed to be installed. Consequently the blast wave and debris were directed into the building instead of the catcher. Now here's the real FUBAR, the explosive somehow "inadvertently" detonated. LANS was just "lucky" that workers or dignitaries were not in the vicinity of the explosion, otherwise, it would have been really ugly. That's why workers were "surprised" why when the damn thing went off. Let's see how our Livermore boys cover this one up, they got 1 week to destroy all the evidence and pay-off all the people involved. I can Bret on CNN with that stupid (this one isn’t fake) and dumb (he’s faking this one) look on his oversized ugly mug saying “at Livermore, at Livermore, at Livermore,......” over and over again.
ReplyDelete"Now here's the real FUBAR, the explosive somehow "inadvertently" detonated." - 8:21 AM
ReplyDeleteOpps! Sounds like a smoking gun just went off. I thought this news story had been thoroughly "Roarked" by LANS. Guess not.
Don't expect Mikey to give any mention of this event during his upcoming January All-Hands. He's likely planning another "Rah-Rah! We're the greatest!" meeting in a lame attempt to boost sinking lab morale.
12:46 Clearly you do not understand the difference between combustion and explosions. It is one of the many reasons I think you are a phony posing as a scientist. At least Google some jargon before you post again, loser. Meanwhile, quite posing as something you are not - an expert in either.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, quite posing as something you are not - an expert in either.
ReplyDelete12/27/09 1:05 PM
You should "quite" posing as literate.
"12:46 Clearly you do not understand the difference between combustion and explosions. It is one of the many reasons I think you are a phony posing as a scientist. At least Google some jargon before you post again, loser. Meanwhile, quite posing as something you are not - an expert in either.
ReplyDelete12/27/09 1:05 PM"
Look I am technically an expert on
explosions but everyone knows that that combustion is the same as an explosion, so 12:46PM knows what they are talking about.
6:47 It is people like you that make me worry about the scientific expertise that has been lost in Los Alamos over the last decade. Wow. Just wow.
ReplyDeleteActually rapid combustion can be considered an explosion. I think detonation is the word you are thinking of.
ReplyDeleteInteresting that the person chiding others for not knowing what the hell they are talking about is actually the one who doesn't seem to understand.
If you are still confused on the difference between detonation and deflagration, Wikipedia explains it in language even 6:57 can understand. The difference is whether the COMBUSTION wave travels above (detonation) or below (deflagration) the sound velocity in the unreacted material.
I think there are a lot of people posing as scientists on this blog.
10:55 Thanks for the Wiki-link. Now I understand why cannons are unexpectedly 'deflagrating' in Los Alamos county. They're just like toasters! Who knew?!
ReplyDelete"I think there are a lot of people posing as scientists on this blog."
ReplyDelete12/28/09 10:55 AM
Heck, there are a lot of people now posing as scientists at LANL! Have you taken a close look at the lab's current work force? Low morale seems to be having the usual outcomes.
Ok Explain this to me Wepons Physicists blow up a couple of doors costing roughly 1 to 3 million... No Big Deal Right...
ReplyDeleteA security guard burns a hot pocket in a Micro wave and LANL removes all micro waves at TA 55 that the guards have access to... LANL says calling LAFD one too many times is not good NO thats a NO NO ... but blow up doors is hmmmm
9:31 Combustion. Look it up. It's on Wikipedia. Microwave ovens are just like toasters and toasters are just like large bore powder guns. Get with the program, dude.
ReplyDeleteSuccessful Firing of Battlefield Cannon
ReplyDeleteNew York Times
December 29, 2009
Los Alamos National Security Laboratory has reported that they have successfully fired a modern day cannon that could someday be used in the war on terrorism. Laboratory spokesman Mr. Roark reported that they envision that every jet plane could be armed with the device, however, the technology would need to be scaled down in size from it's current weight of 8000 tons. Scientist and Associate Director Bret Knapp was interviewed and stated "yeah I personally designed, builded, and tested the damn thing and should be given full credit". Knapp stated he also anticipated a E. O. Lawrence award next year for his work, Knapp also proudly stated "I'm from Livermore". Roark stated he had no comment on the large crater that appeared in Gallup, New Mexico, where people witnessed what appeared to be a cannonball rolling across the mesa striking 25 heads of cattle. Roark also had no comment on a building that reported to have been mysteriously and rapidly demolished without any demolition equipment a few day ago.
LANL accidentally blew up an entire building! Wow, just wow. What is wrong with you people?
ReplyDeleteLANL accidentally blew up an entire building! Wow, just wow. What is wrong with you people?
ReplyDelete12/29/09 11:07 AM
Well, where do we start?
Have any of you brainiacs actually been to the firing site at TA-15 where this 'building' was damaged?
Have any of you actually been briefed on any facts regarding this incident? (Other than that provided by Mr Stockton & POGO?)
Do any of you even know what the purpose of this particular LBPG shot was? Was the target inert or energetic? Was there even a target involved?
Some of the authors appear to even be confused about what tests they are spreading 'facts' about. Are you sure that that delicious tidbit that you heard in the hall was actually about this shot?
We still do a small bit of real work at LANL that doesn't need to be discussed too openly. If that is not true of your particular job then maybe you need to seriously contemplate why you are still here.
The derogatory comments regarding this recent incident that are posted here have no basis in facts. Move along, there is nothing to see here.
ReplyDeleteIsn't this the same Krew that started a wildfire with a powder gun a short while ago?
ReplyDelete9:18 Yes. More importantly, same management.
ReplyDeleteWell, Bret Knapp's been pressuring to reduce the number of firing sites in use at LANL. So this should make him real happy.
ReplyDeleteKnapp is trying to keep Site 300 open. The more he screws up R-site, the better his friends at Livermore like it.
ReplyDeleteKnapp is trying to keep Site 300 open. The more he screws up R-site, the better his friends at Livermore like it.
ReplyDeleteIt's sad to think that Mike Anastasio and his LANS management buddies like Bret Knapp are actually working to destroy LANL, not help it. Of all the many problems which beset the lab, this one is the most depressing.
ReplyDeleteIn reality, I suspect they are secretly very happy to see the extremely low results of the recent LANL morale survey.
9:21 To paraphrase Jabba The Hut. 'These (Livermites) are my kind of scum.' Of course Brett is holding a "Civil War Era", large-bore-powder-gun instead of a thermal detonator, but the point is the same...anything for a price.
ReplyDeleteAside from the Pu issue, if this test was intended to be conducted at NTS then why wasn't it? The DNFSB is reporting this is at least the 2nd failure of Knapp's loose canon. This accident is begging some serious problems with LANS. Mikey tried to brush it aside in his all-hands as a minor little incident.
ReplyDeleteDEFENSE NUCLEAR FACILITIES SAFETY BOARD
December 18, 2009
MEMORANDUM FOR: T. J. Dwyer, Technical Director
FROM: B. P. Broderick and R.T. Davis
SUBJECT: Los Alamos Report for Week Ending December 18, 2009
Technical Area (TA)-15: On Wednesday, a containment assembly catastrophically failed during an indoor propellant-driven experiment at TA-15 involving a large bore powder gun. No radioactive
material was present in this experiment and no personnel were injured, however, the failure did cause significant structural damage to the building housing the powder gun. The cause of the failure is not yet well understood and LANL is planning an investigation. This is at least the second containment failure of this powder gun, which is ultimately intended to be fielded underground at the Nevada Test Site to perform dynamic experiments involving plutonium.