Jun 30, 2007

"I want UC to win so that my benefits are preserved."

A comment on an earlier post suggested that most LANL staff are dishonest, in an attempt to get people all riled up. That's not true.

Most of the staff there *are*, however, unacceptably naive. As are the staff of our sister lab, LLNL. Back in early 2005, soon before the LANL bid winner was to be announced, I asked my office mate who he wanted to win. I remember his answer quite clearly:

"I want UC to win so that my benefits are preserved."

His response was representative of what most of the staff at LANL were thinking, those at least who had even bothered to think about it at all. Most staff hadn't even taken the time to look at the terms of the LANL bid. Had they done so, they would have realized that it didn't matter which of the two corporate competitors won the contract, the LANL UC benefits would soon be a thing of the past.

In a way, the staff at LLNL have demonstrated an even more unforgivable obtuseness, because they had the benefit of front row seats to the Los Alamos spectacle. They got to watch everything that happened to us, knowing that they were next. Yet here we are in the last minutes of handing another national lab over to a corrupt, greedy, inept corporate entity, and we are just now beginning to hear the bleatings of astonishment and righteous indignation as they echo up and down the Livermore valley.

For the extreme literal minded of you who might be reading this:

Main Entry: 1bleat
Pronunciation: 'blEt, Northern also 'blat, Southern usu 'blAt
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English bleten, from Old English bl[AE]tan; akin to Latin flEre to weep, Old English bellan to roar -- more at BELLOW
intransitive verb
1 a : to make the natural cry of a sheep or goat; also : to utter a similar sound b : WHIMPER
2 a : to talk complainingly or with a whine b : BLATHER
transitive verb : to utter in a bleating manner
- bleat·er noun

And here is what the bleaters at LLNL are now whimpering:

"They can't do that!"

"I'll quit!"

"It's not fair!"

"We should write our Congressmen."

In the end, though, LLNL will go down with but a whimper, just as LANL did. Most staff will stay, and they will get what they deserve -- that what Darwinism is all about.



Anonymous said...

Unkind and unnecessary Asshole

Buzz Pedrotti

Anonymous said...

The truth can be ugly sometimes.

Anonymous said...

What's the matter, Buzz? Is it ok to poke sharp sticks at LANL, but not at Livermore? From what I see from reading this blog you people out there in California are every bit as useless as LANL staff were at mounting any kind of meaningful objection to being taken over by Bechtel and their corporate buddies.

You Californians come across as being just as self-centered, and egotistical, and thick-headed as LANL staff were, and you have even had the benefit of a whole year to see what the effects of privatizing LANL have been. It's been a total disaster. What did you think? That you were too good to have the same thing happen to you?

I'll make you a bet: after all the pissing and moaning and empty threats to quit in droves have died down we'll see that, just like at LANL, most LLNL staff stay to work for the new corporation.

Oh, and by the way, you can have your director back. He hasn't done us any favors that I could tell about.

Anonymous said...

Gosh, it's too bad that we are not all as wise and courageous as gussie.

Eric said...

The two books "People of the Bomb" (about Livermore) and "The Nuclear Borderlands" (about Los Alamos) detail the social dynamics that have led to the apparent unwillingness of people at both Labs to act effectively in their own defense.

I have found that more than 90% of the people at each lab are very unwilling to take the time to protect themselves.

Protection only takes about 10 hours of a person's time (this is the average that we saw across 200 people who took the time). In spite of this short time, many people are unwilling to do the work.

I would ask for compassion for workers at LANL and at LLNL. The great majority are very good people facing difficult times without the skills that they need to get through these times. It is not their fault that they do not have these skills.

Attacking people who have helped the nation tremendously but who are now in a difficult place for them strikes me as callous.

With so many spiritual people in both towns, I would hope that we can rise above callous and be caring toward each other.

Anonymous said...

NNSA also had a year to figure out that the LANS team can't manage a National Laboratory, but NNSA repeated the same mistake with LLNL as they made with LANL.

Well, at least now both LLNL and LANL are in the same boat. If both the California and New Mexico Congressional delegations pay attention, they'll come to the conclusion that NNSA and Bechtel are both problems (it's obvious, isn't it?). Then maybe something will be done.

Meanwhile, the staff at both labs will have to slog on carrying an increasing burden of fools.

Anonymous said...

It didn't take a whole lot of rocket science to see this coming, yet here we are down to the wire, listening to the LLNL staff wail about their benefits just like the LANL people did.

With as little foresight and common sense as the folks at both labs have demonstrated (not to mention backbone), it sure looks like you're all getting exactly what you deserve.

Anonymous said...

Most of the people I deal with (scientists and engineers) were and are well aware of whats going on in DC. They all have been preparing for years and most of the older ones could walk away today and do just fine. They have enough sense to know to stop bailing when the deck is under water. The point is they don't need the DOE, NNSA, or LANS. Can the reverse be said?

Anonymous said...

9:13 AM Seems to be suggesting that LLNL staff are much more astute than LANL staff were on the subject of lab privatization.

I recall quite a bit of chest-thumping at LANL, with staff threatening to leave in droves with the contract change over.

Didn't happen; they stayed in droves. I haven't seen much to lead me to suspect that LLNL will be any different.

Anonymous said...

The truth hurts, Buzz. You shouldn't be shooting the messenger. You *should* be concerned about the fate of all the LLNL staff presently funded by NIF once that enormous teat starts to run dry.

Eric said...

For readers of this blog from outside the small world of nuclear weapons, here is what appears to be going on.

Many of the posters here and many of the people who are not posting or who are not reading this blog see their careers evaporating soon. These people are in one of Kubler-Ross's stages of grief. The majority are in the first stage - Denial (this isn't happening to me!). A number of commenters here are in the second stage - Anger (why is this happening to me?)

Later will come bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...) and depression (I don't care anymore)
The final stage is acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes)

When people reach the last stage, they function more effectively in solving problems.

I hope that many people at LANL and LLNL get to the last stage quickly. I wish that the anger would go away.

As usual, if a reader wants to know more details, follow the hyperlinks attached to my identity.

Good luck.

Anonymous said...

And here is what the bleaters at LLNL are now whimpering:

"They can't do that!"
Of course they can, Congress dictated a change, NNSA gleefully implemented the change and here we are. I guess if they COULDN'T do it the best and brightest at LANL would have gotten the lawyers all wound up by now.

"I'll quit!"
If your life's sitatuation allows you to do so, vote with your feet. There wasn't a mass exodus at LANL and there won't be one at Livermore. We pump a lot of bravodo when typing into an anonymous blog, but when it actually comes down to pulling that pin on the grenade, many of us - and I count myself, aren't ready to jump off that cliff.

"It's not fair!"
We at Livermore didn't think that the screwups at LANL should have caused us to be taken to the whipping shed with our sister lab. So shed a few tears in the beer and walk on.

"We should write our Congressmen."
I did. So did a lot of others. It might make some minor tweaks in TCP2 but the iceberg has already struck this ship.

Gussie's basic premise that people were hoping for UC to win so the benefits would be preserved was true for some. AT BOTH LABS. As I watched the train wreck at LANL I was aware of what was coming and so were many of my co-workers. Were there some that had the foolish belief that because UC was still in the mix that all was right with the world. Yup.

I think that a larger percentage of us at Livermore were more in tune with what was coming than the folks at LANL since we were second. The only thing that being second in this race has afforded us is that there may be more of us choosing TCP2 than TCP1 based on the knowledge that has been gathered since the LANL ship ran aground.

GussieFinkNottle said...

I never claimed to be either kind, nor necessary, Buzz. I do claim to be an asshole, though. Not proud of it, nor ashamed of it; it's just the way it is.

I stand by what I said, however. You folks at LLNL had the benefit of having seen the effects of the takeover of LANL by LANS, LLC. You Livermites had a year's worth of heads up. You should have have been much better prepared for when the same fate overtook your lab, but you were not.

Instead, all we hear are the same self-centered, useless whinings about reduced benefits that we heard a year ago at LANL. You all should be ashamed of yourselves for not having made a better showing of resistance to your own corporate takeover.


Anonymous said...

I agree. LLNL employees are no better and no worse than LANL. Actually the scale on wimpiness does in fact tilt more towards LLNL employees with the exception of a few, approximately 5% that had the courage to make a statement and stand up for what they earned. What's more discouraging, and I am sure has been noted by DOE / NNSA, is that the Livermorons don't have a blog of their own. I am sure that having one after Oct 1st, 2007 would be very valuable to anyone who may be thinking about coming to work for them or any other facility.

Anonymous said...
Having read all of the post under this heading in their entirety I have come to the conclusion that DOE and NNSA will never be trusted again no matter what reconciliations are made from this day forward. The dedication to duty and patriotism are leaving, and it will continue to do so over the next five to six years until in the end all you'll have is a bunch of contract employees who are there for a paycheck until such time they are laid off; because they know that their job is on a _day to day_ basis.

All DOE facilities from now on are nothing more than training facilities where new employees will come, get trained and then leave; and if given a clearance during that time of employment so will the secrets they've acquired. Are you listening?

The remaining work force knows that effective Oct 1st, 2007 that there is nothing to stay for. The young who are currently employed and all new hires will soon realize that the 401k with matching funds can be found anywhere. On the up side, the good news for them is that they can take their 401k and the skills acquired and use them as bargening chips to get better pay, benefits and recognition elsewhere. Mission accomplish NNSA.

So, to the individual who was responsible for the privatization of the national labs I quite frankly think you have done this nation an injustice and decades from now the people of America are going to pay dearly for this foolishness. If your agenda was to set the example for a peace loving world by disarmament you can now come out of your comma, get off the legal or illegal substance that you've been utilizing.

In conclusion I will reference all further readers of this blog to a post who the author sumed up matters rather well. (See URL Below ). Not only that but the author has correctly identified and selected a songs title and lyrics that fit perfectly to the situation and the hollowness of this entire fiasco. To DOE and NNSA, well, I'd have to say you're accomplishments are quite noteworthy, but not worthy of any award unless there is one for having a bad case of cranium rectum inversion.


Take care. My work ethics as of today have taken a 180 turn and I will now become a subservient employee who knows their days are numbered and therefore expect nothing from you, as you should expect nothing from me.

7/1/07 9:55 AM

Anonymous said...

Yes it is necessary, to tell these idoits in denial that it's their own fault. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't change reality, yet we seem to have a penchant for doing just that--sticking our heads where ever we can with hopes of avoiding the consequences of reality. And then when reality kicks us in the teeth, we act oh so shocked, offended and dismayed. So yes, the "I told you so" lecture IS necessary now and then simply because stupidy is not excuse.

Anonymous said...


"You all should be ashamed of yourselves for not having made a better showing of resistance to your own corporate takeover."

Aside from a mass walkout, what do you suggest people do? Or should have done, at LANL?

"LLNL will go down with but a whimper, just as LANL did."

Huh? How do you define 'whimper'? A mass walkout would have done nothing to change what happened, other than to accelerate the pace of the lab's decline. Which, maybe, is what some folks really want, both on this blog, and in Washington.

I know a lot of folks who fought back as best they could. When it became obvious that the contract would be competed, some choices had to be made.

You could quit, which really would have served no purpose, other than to help a few people feel self-rightous. I hear that, at his first LANL meeting w/ the folks in his directorate, Brett Knapp said something like "Some of you may think that you will 'Show me' something by quitting, but I'm telling you, you won't show me anything". (Now, that is just rumor, but I heard it from a reliable source).

I suggest that Knapp's purported sentiment was the widely held philosophy of LANS managment. And Congress, too. The decision was made, the contract was lost, and short of a revolution, nothing was going to change that.

Choosing not to quit, you can stick around and bitch and moan, or, at best, continue to work quitetly. A lot of folks did that, and thats OK by me, so long as the taxpayer gets his/her money's worth.

I chose to stay and continue to fight for positive change. I fight the good fight very day. Sometimes I make a positive change, most of time my input doesn't matter, but at least I'm trying.

I stayed primarily because I believe that most of what we do here at LANL is important to the national interest, and that it is in the county's best interest to have healthy national laboratories. I didn't see how my leaving could make the country stronger (but I'm sure some bloggers might ;-)).

(Yes, I understand the POV that shutting down LANL makes the country stronger; I understand it, but I disagree with it.)

I don't know any people who quit just to "show" LANS. Most of the folks I know chose to soldier on, because (and I guess I'm very fortunate here) most of my collagues believe in what we do.

Quitting wouldn't have solved anything, and neither will strikes, or mass internet surfings, or whatever folks define as the opposite of "whimpering".

The LLNL folks have had a longer time to make their choices, but their choices are the same.

Myself, I'm not going to quit, or engage in self-immolation, just to satisy a bunch of anonymous whiners. I'm going to continue to plug away until the day that my effort truly makes no difference to the country. (Or get laid off, which may well happen soon).


Anonymous said...

Brett Knapp said something like "Some of you may think that you will 'Show me' something by quitting, but I'm telling you, you won't show me anything". (Now, that is just rumor, but I heard it from a reliable source).

If and when Brett Knapp said that was the time for you all should have walked out leaving that SOB standing there with his mouth open. Then he would have realized that he just overloaded him humming bird ass with his alligator mouth. Nothing has changed except for his overloaded bank account at your expense. Don't worrry, Hells, got a spot reserved for him.

Anonymous said...

For starters, Potrzebie, imagine if all 12,000 LANL employees and contractors had mailed Dominici and Bingaman to complain once the terms of the LANS benefits package had been make public?

Imagine if all LLNL employees had bombarded their elected representatives once it was announced that their lab was being put up for bid?

Only a handful from either lab went to the trouble. As such I agree with Gussie, you are receiving your well-earned rewards. Staff at both labs deserve to go to work each day now for their new corporate boss, enjoying the reduced benefits and wondering when their own personalized pink slips will be delivered. Pretty pathetic.

Anonymous said...

Myself, I'm not going to quit, or engage in self-immolation, just to satisfy a bunch of anonymous whiners. I'm going to continue to plug away until the day that my effort truly makes no difference to the country. (Or get laid off, which may well happen soon).

Your way of thinking makes you a loaner and I would be willing to bet that this is not the attitude that the majority have at LANL or LLNL. They are there for a pay check and pay check only. The BS of fighting for the cause is GONE may man, gone forever and to never return, and surly not for a 401k or an _at will_ status of employment.

Hello, is there anyone in there?

Anonymous said...

I agree with parts of comments from 12:19-12:40. What I do already makes no difference other than supporting my family. No point to even get irritated about it. 80 hrs in 2 weeks. I'll do my best and that's all I can do. I was one of those on the original blog who predicted few were going anywhere. Some skills are portable, most are not. Now getting rid of laptop and other property in my possession, my safe is now empty. I will reduce my personal risk to ALARA.

Chump scientists and engineers will always take it in the a**. Like another poster said, science and engineering are the ultimate middle-class occupations. There is a whole world of people ready to come in and do those jobs. LANS (or whoever) will make it worthwhile if there is anyone they really want or need to keep. Everyone else is just another brick in the wall.

Anonymous said...

Yes, we are wimps at both LANL and LLNL. The DOE, NNSA, and Congress know this all too well. That's why they feel very confident about the path they are now implementing in regards to reduce benefits and pay. That's why LANS feels they can start throwing any new policies they want at the pathetic working stiffs below them.

The worse part of all this, though, is that when you fully grasp the situation, a lot of self-loathing and loss of self respect comes forth, whether recognized or not. This self-loathing is now at the core of what tears away at the psyche of many scientists who work at NNSA labs. We have meet the enemy, and he is looking back at us in the mirror every morning. We know that if we can't effectively fight for our own benefits, perhaps we don't really deserve them. Ouch! We are a kingdom of Mousey Men. Only a few have the guts to escape this dysfunctional place with their self dignity intact. Guys like Doug Roberts come to mind.

Anonymous said...

Hardly a day goes by that I don't wonder what LANL might have been like had Lockheed Martin won and Robinson was now our Director. It couldn't have been any worse, and perhaps much better. At least Robinson knew when to tell NNSA they were wrong (i.e., his not defending the LANL shutdown). That is probably a big reason why NNSA didn't select LM & Robinson. They wanted a compliant toady-ized LLC.

Anonymous said...

"They wanted a compliant toady-ized LLC." They now have that at both labs.People will not cause waves but that doesn't mean they are going to give 100 - 200 % as it was in the past. It's going to be, "we'll get it done, when we get it done", no more OT and no more dedication. You've lost that once prevalent and precious commodity. I only hope that the blog continues and that every university student is assigned to read this blog as part of his required reading. It will be at that time and with the attrition of those who are left that DOE and NNSA will get what they are deserving of. Does anyone know how to distribute this blog to every future scientist and engineer. It is time to spread the word to everyone.

Doug Roberts said...

"Does anyone know how to distribute this blog to every future scientist and engineer[?]"

FWIW, The Los Alamos Historical Society,


asked for and was given a complete unabridged version of the original LANL blog, LANL, The Real Story, on CD last year. The society promised to archive the material according to industry best practices, re-burning the CD and validating the copy every several years to protect against degradation of the physical media.

When I delivered the media to the LAHS offices, I signed a form swearing the the CD contained the original, unabridged, unmodified version of that blog. That part of Los Alamos history, at least, is now on record.

--Doug Roberts
LANL, Retired

Anonymous said...

I guess when this one closes maybe they will be interested in getting a copy of this one too. I only wish LLNL had one that was worth the powder to blow it to hell. The LLNL The Real Story is a joke and by all means at this time should be avoided if not removed from the web. The person that owns it is non responsive to any request and doesn't even take the time to mirror comments made on this blog to that one. I guess her or she just can't find the time to voice his or her opinion, or maybe he or she is just one of those outside the 5% that did. What a joke. Thanks to those at LANL those who care have a voice for LLNL.

Anonymous said...

"For starters, Potrzebie, imagine if all 12,000 LANL employees and contractors had mailed Dominici and Bingaman to complain once the terms of the LANS benefits package had been make public?"

By the time the benefits package came out, it was all over but the shouting. Any protest then was too little, too late.

A lot of folks started complaining when the RFP went out; some of us rattled cages when the decision was made that an RFP would be written. All for naught, but at least some folks tried.

There is a lot more at stake here than personal benefits, although I did prefer the UC package.

(Have you ever seen what a Congressman's benefits package is? And don't forget those free golf trips to Scotland!)

"Only a handful from either lab went to the trouble. "

Can you produce data to support this claim? If so, please post it, or barring that, a link to it.

On a side note; through years of writing to New Mexico Congressman and Senators, only one has bothered with even a "form letter" reply; that was Udall. Given the lack of response, or even apparent interest, one might ask what the point of writing is. As far as I know, the Congressional staff just makes hash marks, tallying up how many wrote in supporting various issues.

"The worse part of all this, though, is that when you fully grasp the situation, a lot of self-loathing and loss of self respect comes forth, whether recognized or not."

I'm sure that, for many folks, those sentiments are real, especially if you are one of the respondees to my post that are apparently punching the clock. For the bitter clock punchers, I'd recommend reading "Man's Search for Meaning"; and no, I'm not suggesting that LANL is like a concentration camp, but rather suggest that Frankl has some wisdom that might help the self-loathing clock punchers.

Having said that, there may come a point when the $$ are all flowing to TA-55 (or its replacement), science is at a nadir, and the benefits are poor enough that I'll leave. But it hasn't gotten to that point yet. Looks like its trending that way, though.


Anonymous said...

Why is it "wrong" for LANL (and LLNL) employees to be concerned about thier jobs and benefits? Are we expected to have some kind of special loyalty?

Our management is clearly just out for themselves. AND, the Congress treats us as whipping boys.

LANL (and LLNL) have had a long history of very dedicated, hard-working employees. In my group the average workweek for TSMs exceeded 45 hours until LANS took over. There really is no sensible reason why LANL (and LLNL) employees should not start acting like the employees of NIST and other government labs: do the minimum.

Anonymous said...

Hey, it could be worse. Check out this bit of what makes New Mexico, well, New Mexico. Looks like the caveman was just trying to break ground in LA.


Anonymous said...

Don't give up hope just yet. LANS has terrific ideas for strengthening LANL's future. Give your management more time to put their innovative ideas into action.

The signs are everywhere. We're coming back stronger than ever. LANS has the plan for making LANL grand!

Anonymous said...

Is the "New Normal" of the business world about to be experienced at LANL? Is "quasi-poverty" about to hit Los Alamos County, like it hit this affluent Chicago suburb?

Layoff Fears Part of 'New Normal' - Chicago Tribune, July 1

Affluence, college education no protection from job market that cycles quickly through workers
By Barbara Rose, Tribune staff reporter.


Good skills and a good attitude no longer ensure steady employment, even when the economy is humming. This is the first in an occasional series about job loss and the changing nature of employment.

The center of greater Barrington, population 40,000, is a compact village reminiscent of a Norman Rockwell painting. Radiating in all directions are six affiliated communities offering winding roads with 5-acre lots and gated enclaves. Nearby corporate headquarters include Motorola Inc. in Schaumburg, Sears Holdings Corp. in Hoffman Estates, Allstate Corp. in Northbrook, and Baxter International Inc. and Walgreen Co., both in Deerfield. Eighty-six percent of greater Barrington's employed adults work as managers and professionals, or in sales and office jobs. The median household income tops $110,000.

But below the surface of a strong economy is an unsettling trend that may be contributing to worrying changes in the school lunch program and elsewhere. Residents seem to be losing jobs at a faster clip. They land back on their feet but not necessarily at the kind of salaries to which they had become accustomed.

...Barrington's awakening to a national trend of rising rates of job loss for better-educated workers is a mirror for profound changes in white-collar employment. More than a decade after economists declared the old system of steady lifetime jobs dead, white-collar workers are struggling with the fact they can be laid off even in good times, more than once during a career.

It wasn't always the case.

When Barrington residents were asked in 1996 to check which of 10 difficulties their household faced, "difficulty finding child care" got the biggest score. It was the first survey by a coalition of 20 non-profit and government groups.

By 2005, "involuntary job loss due to downsizing or other reason" topped the list, followed closely by "difficulty paying bills" and "put off health care" because of cost or lack of insurance. By comparison, child care had become a minor issue.

The 2005 survey, the latest one, came as a shock because 16 percent of residents who responded said someone in their household had lost a job within the previous 12 months -- more than eight times the 1996 rate.

...Deborah Villers sensed something was different several years ago when it came time to get ready for annual "Giving Day" in mid-December. Organizers invite needy families to a school gymnasium filled with donated toys, clothes and food.

Villers' job at Barrington Community Unit School District 220 was to prepare a mailing list of households that received free or subsidized school lunches. But unlike years past, the schools' allotment of 300 invitations wasn't enough to cover all the families. Unnerved, she pared the list to free lunch recipients, but there were still 50 too many. Familiar addresses leaped out at her. They were from affluent neighborhoods, not just lower-income communities on Barrington's fringes.

"They were all over the place, they were names you knew and recognized on this list," she recalls. "It was disturbing."

..."The need we see now are older workers losing their jobs after being employed 15 to 20 years, usually at one company," he says. Some have that "deer-in-the-headlights look. They're not sure they're going to be able to land another job."

Richard H. Price, a leading researcher on the psychological impact of job loss, says the blow to self-esteem is heavy, especially for professionals. But the increased rates of illness, depression, anxiety and marital conflict that he and others documented among displaced U.S. workers stem mainly from the economic fallout -- the "cascade of stressors" flowing from reduced income and loss of benefits like health care, he says.

"People focus so much on the job loss itself, what they forget is you're plunging people into quasi-poverty," says Price, research professor at the University of Michigan's Institute for Social Research. "Even if a spouse is working they are going to be going through a lot of the issues others do. If they're a 50-year-old person who was moderately successful, their chance of landing another comparable job can be very low."

Anonymous said...

Poverty in Los Alamos? Start another Cerro Grande type fire and you can bet you'll get it all back (whatever it is), and then some. Los Alamos has always had friends in high places that will make sure the wealthiest community in the nation doesn't fall too far from grace. It's just not going to happen. This isn't New Orleans we're talking about.

Anonymous said...

Guess I agree. If you lose a good job, say at LANL, it would seem unlikley that you're going to stay in Los Alamos unless you are attached somehow to another good income.

Anonymous said...

I saw a lot of houses for sale over the weekend. Prices still seem high. It looks like rents have come down though.

Anonymous said...

"let them eat cake"...translation... "Give them a comment period to make them think we care then proceed as planned". Yapping to the NNSA and your congressman is totally futile.I believe there are only three options (for LLNL employees). a)Shut up and do as your told b) Retire (if possible) or c) Quit and find a new job. I have been planning for this day for years. I have another job ready and waiting in the wings. I am going to take option b) AND c). Retire from UC so I'll have some health insurance (at the very least I'll get group rates) and take a new job with a 15/hour raise. Later

Anonymous said...

Maybe not...the union passed muster. Now let the bureaucrats deal with that too...!

Anonymous said...

"Maybe not...the union passed muster. Now let the bureaucrats deal with that too...!" Now you get to pay union dues in addition to the other changes in benefits, etc. How long will you have to work to make up the additional difference?